Did you enjoy school?
I did enjoy some bits of school. I think I must have been born an information sponge, so the learning part was definitely fun, especially maths and science subjects. I don’t remember much about early years other than getting told off on my very first day, but as well as enjoying learning maths, I embraced everything creative as well as anything that was described as difficult!
I was (and still am) bohemian but nerdy, introverted but loud, academic but undisciplined, thoughtful but impulsive, so fitting it was never easy and sometimes that hurt. I aways wanted to be liked but never really knew how to make friends, I think I may have been rather intense too!
Looking back now, 35 or so years later, the primary feeling is one of loneliness – but I don’t remember being particularly sad at the time.
What qualifications do you have?
I left home when I was 16 and dropped out of A levels after only a few months (I was studying maths, further maths, physics and art). I think if I had applied myself as a 17 year old I could have succeeded as an academic, the content of the lessons came simply enough (3 dimensional vectors anyone?) but I was restless and fiercely independent, so I left education and started working in hospitality.
I cannot remember exactly why, I think perhaps it was my mother, but five or six years later I signed up for a typing course at the college, and then through a chance encounter with a friend of a friend I started working as a PA for an entrepreneurial computer game designer. He sponsored me to do an HNC in Computer and Internet Technology – and my career in IT started there.
While completing the course and exams I found myself very comfortable in databases and spreadsheets, and when I qualified started work in the NHS as a data analyst. After that I am mostly self-taught until I completed an NHS funded Masters Degree in Healthcare Leadership in 2017.
The research for the course was a catalyst (as I think the course is designed to be) and sparked a passion to study systems, complexity, organisational psychology and leadership, something that I still do almost every day.
Has your career path been a smooth transition, a rocky road or a combination of both?
My career path has been squiggly, zig zagging for two decades in different fields, organisations, and specialisms, all closely aligned and heading roughly in the same direction, but not consciously so. If I look back now with honesty, I can see that I work the hardest when I am doing something that I find difficult, so when a role becomes ‘normal’ a move directly upwards is not nearly as appealing as one that is sideways.
There have been great managers and leaders along the way, and some truly awful ones (and some in the middle who were usually constrained by external factors rather than their own values). It was the excellent and the terrible leaders that tended to influence every move, either because I was propelled forward by them, or because I was getting myself away from them.
I understand that I have not always been, and may still not be, the easiest person to manage. That independent, impulsive, creative, clever, nerdy girl is still inside me!
What is the best career advice you can give to others?
If you find yourself working for an unchecked bully (a liar, or someone untrustworthy and manipulative, a misogynist, a racist, a predator, or any other intolerable trait) and you are not in a position of power to change the organisation culture – leave that organisation as soon as you are able, and do not dally.
If the organisation tolerates/celebrates/promotes bullying behaviour it is not a culture that will support you or enable you to thrive.
If you are in a position to drive behaviour change in the organisation move yourself away from that person as soon as you are able, and use your positional power (and every other power you have) to actively and visibly root out the bad behaviours to positively influence the culture for others.
This last bit is hard, but it is your responsibility to do so even though it is frightening.
If you had to pick one mentor, that had the biggest influence on you, who would it be?
The most influential and supportive mentorship I have ever had was with two other women, we formed a trio of challenge, support, reflection, advice, and humour. Those women are Fatima Khan-Shah and Sayma Mirza. They believed in me to such an extent that I could not help but believe in myself.
Together as a peer network we navigated working in the NHS during a global pandemic, we navigated the impacts of prejudice and bullying, and pressured cultures, and leadership challenges, and living complicated lives together. Since moving from West Yorkshire to North Yorkshire the practicalities of staying connected got increasingly difficult and I miss them terribly, but I am fuelled by their belief in my ability to change the world.
Now I don’t know if this is a coincidence but in my current organisation it is also two other women I rely on, a trio that lifts me up. We support each other, challenge each other, occasionally really challenge each other, provide advice and insight and cake for each other.
But I haven’t ever had an actual mentor, perhaps it is something I should seek out? If anyone reading this has any advice I would welcome it.
From where do you draw inspiration?
Everywhere, the more varied the better, and ultimately the more well-rounded and achievable I find my ideas are.
Time purposefully not seeking an answer is also really important, those magical moments of daydreaming, or cloud watching, or star gazing, when all the information swimming in your head coalesces into ideas!
I think I am advocating the concept of doing nothing, of giving yourself thinking time, and of not feeling guilty about it. Thinking is work, reading is work, learning is work – all of these things make us more effective and better at our jobs so should be included in our daily activities with just as much conscious effort as ‘doing our emails’ is.
What is the biggest challenge you have faced to date?
Working out when to stop trying and walk away from things. I have a strong tendency towards optimism bias, I am almost pathologically positive and I can only imagine just how annoying it can be!
What this means is that I can hyper focus on something in the past without being aware of doing it until I ran smack into a brick wall (metaphorically) that stopped me in my tracks, and forced me to reset.
I learnt to (mostly) manage that within myself but have found it incredibly useful as a general practice to stop, take a breath, and assess as regularly as possible. I think this is going to be something that really helps me going forward too, there is so much complexity now, so much snake oil and quicksand, and insecurity, that being able to objectively assess situations, be brave enough to stop doing things, and be brave enough to share your stories is our biggest IT leadership challenge.
What qualities do you feel makes a good leader?
The number one thing for me is honesty; that has to come first. Followed by kindness, and then thirdly having level of authenticity that lets your values and beliefs shine through.
The time of the hero leader, the cape wearing director leading the charge and strategising from the top rung of the ladder, is past. It might feel like there is still space for that type of leader, especially when you consider the geopolitical and historical view that in times of war we need a hero – but considering it has never worked that well in the past perhaps it is time for something different now?
Compassion is a strength, as is empathy, and kindness is a superpower.
Creating a culture of experimentation unlocks more hidden capabilities and talent than you can imagine, so if this is a focus for you as a leader then you are well placed to navigate the tumultuous and ambiguous world of work we are all in right now.
From a work viewpoint what has the last 12 months been like?
Nuts!
What would you say are the biggest tech-based challenges we face today?
The AI explosion means that we are in a technological revolution, and that means we are having to make massive impactful decisions multiple times a day, often using our instincts and probability rather than evidence or data.
Keeping one foot on the ground, and one hand in the air at the same time feels incredibly precarious and often very lonely.
- How to balance AI productivity opportunities with information and system security?
- How do I maximise cloud without losing control of costs?
- How do I provide employment stability and build a future ready workforce?
So, the biggest tech-based challenge I see right now is not one of actual tech, but of leadership and collaboration. We are all standing on the same cliff edge so it doesn’t make sense to try and figure it out if you should jump on your own. Find peers, make friends, connect. There are dozens and maybe hundreds of people in a similar position to you, with similar pressures and structures and decisions to make, the way we face this latest challenge is together.
What can be done to encourage more women into the industry?
I work in the public sector, and we are doing better here than in most places (I have been at some international IT events that were a sea of men wearing grey suits/chinos with blue shirts/hoodies and backpacks!). The flexible working, term time options, part time and generous terms and conditions around holidays mean that it is easier for women to balance the responsibilities of career with those of a home in public sector roles. Because let’s face it, in almost all cases women are shouldering the burden of huge amounts of physical and emotional labour outside of paid work that mean a degree of flexibility is essential.
So my challenge to the world is, can we stop undervaluing that work first, can we agree that for a lot of women (not exclusively here I agree!) they are already doing a full time job (or two) caring for children, and/or parents, keeping a house running, a family fed, and themselves healthy – before they engage in paid employment on top. Then we can start to see what level looks like.
That felt like a bit of a rant, so on a more positive note to encourage more women into tech roles, keep role modelling, showing that working in IT is challenging and fun and rewarding, that we make a difference!
Give us a fact about you that most other people wouldn’t know.
I sew, I can sew just about anything but like to be creative and do teeny tiny bits of decorative sewing that switch off the mind in a sort of solitary thread-based meditation.
And I am allergic to peppers!
