Did you enjoy school?
I did enjoy school! Less for the lessons, but I had fun, and enjoyed the variety of things I got to do.
What qualifications do you have?
I’m completing an executive coaching qualification, which is really interesting and introducing me to another network of people.
Other than that, I have a Law degree and a qualification in Leadership & Management.
Has your career path been a smooth transition, a rocky road or a combination of both?
Someone told me recently that they don’t like to think of things as journeys, as that suggests something planned and structured. Instead, they consider things an adventure – and that is definitely more reminiscent of my career. There’s never been a five-year plan, but I’ve been attracted to a really wide range of jobs where there has been challenge and interest, and where I feel like I’d really be able to make a difference. And with all good adventures, things aren’t smooth sailing – I’ve worked on some of the biggest challenges facing government and the country, with incredible teams. But there have been times where I have been tested to my absolute limit.
What is the best career advice you can give to others?
Learn from those around you – recognising the skills, values and behaviours that you aspire to, and those that you don’t.
If you had to pick one mentor, that had the biggest influence on you, who would it be?
I’m lucky to have worked with some brilliant leaders, at all levels throughout my career. But the biggest mentor would be one of my first coaches. He was a senior leader in a government department, leading a critical cross government profession, and I really admired how his leadership was so authentic. He was brilliant at his job and he did it without trying to fit himself into any kind of box. Through his coaching, I gained really important self awareness – about who I am, how I lead, what matters to me and what I stand for. It gave me a confidence and perspective on what value I bring, and to be unapologetic in where that differs from what’s ‘expected’. It also helped me recognise where I’m not strong – and that that’s OK.
From where do you draw inspiration?
From a deep belief that public services can and should be able to deliver for those who most need them. And the knowledge that I constantly have the privilege of working with teams who are incredibly smart and dedicated to achieving that for people.
What is the biggest challenge you have faced to date?
A close call between working in a role in central government during the peaks of the Covid-19 pandemic and leading work on Customs after the 2016 Brexit referendum. Both meant rapidly adapting to the unknown, working across many different teams in many different government departments and developing options quickly, with limited information. Most importantly, they also both meant genuinely supporting teams. To use their skills and capabilities in new ways – giving them confidence, empowerment and trust – and to make sure they were able to look after themselves and each other in what were incredibly were high pressure, high stress roles.
What qualities do you feel makes a good leader?
Curiosity: a belief in people and those you work with; and being open to challenge and admitting when things haven’t gone well or as planned and seeking to learn from that.
From a work viewpoint what has the last 12 months been like?
Exciting and challenging, with lots of learning. I joined the NAO a year ago alongside Verity, my job share partner, so we’ve spent a year learning about a new organisation and its people. It’s obviously an incredibly challenging time for the public sector in terms of finances and delivery, and the NAO is in a unique position to be able to see across the whole system. So we’ve been really focused on thinking about how our work can support greater productivity, resilience and financial management in the public sector, building on the great work of teams across the organisation. I’m really proud that this year the teams have been pushing themselves to do things differently and increase the impact that we can have through all aspects of our work – whether that’s through the financial audit work we do for over 400 public bodies or in our insights and value for money work.
What would you say are the biggest tech-based challenges we face today?
There are so many answers to this question – from cybersecurity risks to the challenges of getting the benefits of AI while maintaining quality of delivery and the ability to create interesting career paths for people, to the pace of change expected by the public.
But overall, I think the tech challenges mirror the wider challenges for the public sector – how are services designed and delivered efficiently and effectively in a way that meets the needs of those most able to engage with them?
What can be done to encourage more women into the industry?
More openness about some of the cultural challenges, and strong leadership voices prepared to talk about and tackle them.
Give us a fact about you that most other people wouldn’t know.
I’m quite an open person, so there’s not much about that fits that category! I enjoy open water swimming – something that I’ve discovered in the last couple of years. And I’m quite partial to a bit of (bad) karaoke.
